urbanscootin.com Honda Metropolitan Scooter Forum

Stopped by a local shop here in San Jose (closed on Sunday, peered through the window) and they had Buddy 50's in the store with a sticker for $1899. Was thinking would be good for "the boy" to get to college about 12 miles from the house. I know these are 2-strokers, but I remember my old Puch Moped, and that thing seemed to run forever. Anyone have any insight on these? Thanks.

that is just too much $$$ for what it is...if you want a 50cc 2stroke get a zuma, cost is about the same for a better bike

or a met!

$1899 may have been the sticker price, but what about all the add-ons and the true OTD (out the door price)??
The Buddy 125 is a very good & popular scooter, but I have seen almost nothing about the Buddy 50. The Zuma is the same price plus there is lots of after market support (forums, etc) and parts for it.

sooznd wrote:$1899 may have been the sticker price, but what about all the add-ons and the true OTD (out the door price)??
The Buddy 125 is a very good & popular scooter, but I have seen almost nothing about the Buddy 50. The Zuma is the same price plus there is lots of after market support (forums, etc) and parts for it.

You are right on, Susan. 1,899 is the msrp as listed on the Genuine site. A little asterisk on that page tells us that it doesn't include destination charges or dealer prep.

My out the door price was $2400. I think it was a bit steep, but the Buddy is a great scooter and the 50cc doesn't get much credit here. It is quicker then the Metro and handles great. Not knocking the Metro, but to me the Buddy is the better bike.

DaBinChe wrote:that is just too much $$$ for what it is...if you want a 50cc 2stroke get a zuma, cost is about the same for a better bike

Whether or not the zuma is obviously better is, I think, not entirely clear.

TheNinja wrote:Not knocking the Metro, but to me the Buddy is the better bike.

It might be quicker and handle better, but that doesn't make it a "better bike" . There are other factors involved , like reliability and after-sale support.

I will respectfully state that Genuine has a LONG way to go before it can rival the quality of Honda or Yamaha. I doubt if they are even trying . They have a niche , right in there with Kymco ..... much better than the typical cheap Chinese brands, but well below the standard of quality set by Japanese brands like Honda and Yamaha. I'm not saying you can't buy a Buddy or People and have many trouble free miles , because you can....but the fact remains that Honda and Yamaha products are engineered better and built better, so they are typically more reliable ,especially in the long run .

The Genuine might seem like more bang for your buck up front, but woe to you if you need parts . Genuine's dealer support basically sucks, compared to Honda. You can't even compare it to Honda, or Yamaha, actually.

They don't have a microfiche available , let alone something online that interfaces with Lightspeed. Their dealers have little 3 ring binders with poorly photocopied diagrams,many of which are printed in Chinese, with notes in English (often handwritten , LOL ). Parts are shipped on some kind of slow boat , and frequently backordered. Dealers have no way to check parts inventory online , so they can't even give you a lead time when you order something. Parts often take weeks or months, since Genuine doesn't keep enough parts on hand here in the US , and stuff has to come from Asia. Of course, they don't spring for FedEx on those , you end up waiting , with a broken scooter.

This thread is worth reading , take a few minutes and read the whole thing:

http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/topic2818.html

I like the part about owners setting up an engine exchange program, to avoid the long, scootless wait for parts from Genuine.....

Genuine has approched our shop several times, wanting us to take on the line. Cool scoots ,excellent performance, with reasonable initial quality (especially for the "ChinaScoot" class), but when we asked the tough questions and determined how poor their commitment to after sale service is , and saw that pitiful little "parts book" , we decided to pass. Their "Dealer Representative" becomes evasive and changes the subject, when we start asking about parts and warranty support....because he knows it's subpar , and grudgingly admitted as much when pressed. He is all about shiny new scoots that perform crisply and look sharp , but that's only part of the game for us, as dealers. The hard part comes later , when it's time to support what we have sold. Mr. BuddyRep will probably be selling Real Estate by then.

We plan on being around for many more years to come, and don't want to sell a bunch of scoots that we can't support to our standards, which are high.

Everything about Genuine suggests that they are trying to sell as many shiny new scoots as possible with short term profit in mind ,with little or no long term commitment to keep them on the road. I'd be really surprised if they are around in 5 years at all , and I have a feeling that most of the shops that are selling them now won't be able to support those same machines worth a damn.

Can we put this post in a time capsule , and pull it out in 2013 ??

that's a helluva read on moderbuddy, bustin. i couldn't agree with you more about the quality of honda. i've never seen a thread remotely close to that one on this site.

I certainly am in no position to disagree with Bustin's opinion as a dealer (I'm guessing from your post that you are a dealer) but I do disagree with other parts of the assessment of Genuine, and wanted to post some comments.

First I'm not at all trying to start any kind of Buddy v. Honda/Yamaha war or anything- I just think that some of the above comments are off base. And yes, I do own a Buddy, which I bought after lots of research and looking around.

Parts delays definitely seem to be an issue. I haven't dealt with it firsthand yet, but no question they need a better system. However, Aprilia for example has the same parts delays (admitted to by two dealers I talked to when I bought my scooter as well as numerous opinions on the internet) yet they are a great company with great scooters. The other scoot I considered heavily was a Mojito and I steered away partly because the parts delays (according to what research I was able to do as an average consumer) seemed to be worse. And while no, it's not all about being quicker and handling better, it's also not all about parts/service.

That referenced thread on modernbuddy is definitely an extreme case, as the OP of the thread even points out. Quoting from the thread:

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""you're the victim of the most unlikely chain of parts failures"

IMHO, I really think that is the case. It all appears to be different problems all stacked up on top of each other.

Of course I am dissapointed is this particular bike, but as for my dealer:

They have been great with the purchase, parts and service. I have full confidence in them. I have owned alotta bikes, and East Side Scooters has been one of the best motorcycle dealer/service relationships I have ever had. At this point I see no reason to deal directly with Genuine. I am completely satisfied with my dealer. If at any point I felt the dealer did anything wrong, I would give them the chance to fix and/or explain it before I went to genuine.

FYI:
Out of all the 60ish buddies my dealer sold this year, I by far have the worst problems. "
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The Buddy isn't an entirely new scoot- it's been the PGO Bubu (major deductions for the dumbest names in the world of scooters!) for quite some time. While there are a few threads on modernbuddy like the one referenced that seem to indicate a "common problem" (oil filter tightening is another) there's hardly enough on there to point to any kind of epidemic problem with Buddys, and obviously the rules of internet messageboards (those with issues post more because those without any don't need to search for help) apply. There's just as many threads about Buddys with some serious miles on them with little/no problems- check out http://www.peacescooter.com to read about a three-month, 11,000 mile trip on a Buddy.

I think the comment about "reasonable initial quality especially for the ChinaScoot class" is off as well. If we're only talking initial quality, the Buddy performs much more than reasonably. That one review on justgottascoot.com that everyone always references (where the reviewer rates the Buddy above the Vino in most every category) would seem to indicate performance higher than "reasonable for a ChinaScoot." I'm learning that everyone has a different opinion on even how to define "performance" on a scooter- some want comfort, some want quickness, etc. I think the Buddy is very easy to ride, gets me through horrendous traffic every day with power to maneuver around, and so in my opinion its performance is excellent.

Most all of the dealers I read about on Modernbuddy (including my own) are excited about the line and although absolutely there is a problem in the parts deployment area, dealers are supporting them really well (again, read the whole thread on modernbuddy).

I'm also curious about the comment that everything about Genuine suggests they are trying to sell as many scoots as possible and that's it. The history of Genuine/Scooterworks would seem to suggest otherwise. I think more than anything they show growing pains of a new company who has sold a lot of scoots, has a lot of satisfied customers, and as you said, has (rightfully so) a long way to go before having the smooth operation of a long-time company like Honda or Yamaha. I just can't see that Philip McCaleb would ruin his reputation by selling a bunch of scoots and then bailing on them. It's not like he just entered the industry.

Once again, this post isn't meant to be inflammatory. I hope it's been a reasonable and intelligent rebuttal from one who is admittedly new to scooter world but not new to researching companies, etc. And Bustin, I'm not discounting your experience with dealer reps etc. I'm sure you see tons of dealer reps and your gut feelings and impressions are valid. But lumping the Buddy into the "ChinaScoot" class, etc. is off. I live in South Florida, the capital of the true ChinaScoot class. The crap I saw around here and that I see on the streets every day is a whole other (third) world from Genuine Scooters and the Buddy.

Good post Cortadito . As I stated above , I think the Genuines are good little scoots, with nice styling and impressive performance , as well as decent build quality. I would probably own a Buddy 125 , but for the issues on support.

I'm not anti-Genuine , per-se, but when people start comparing Genuine to Honda or Yamaha , I am compelled to point out some glaring shortcomings in the line , most of which aren't apparent in the showroom. I am in a position to see these differences , and they are substantial.

I could be wrong about Genuine's long term business plan , but the fact that they are not making the commitment to warehouse more parts in the U.S. , with a dealer accessable online stock check system, is telling. The fact that they haven't paid Bell & Howell to convert their sad little 3 ring binders to a usable parts microfiche for their dealers is telling . The fact that they will hand out dealership agreements with a three scoot buy-in and a handshake is TELLING . It's not like they just got started, they have had years to get these things rolling.

Could be cash-flow issues, sure.... but I think it's a short term , hit-and-run strategy designed to show big profits and big "growth" , i.e. " We added 17 new dealers just last year !!! " Meanwhile , the investments needed to support the product long-term are being swept under the rug , instead of toning down that quarterly P&L statement. I don't know if they are gearing up for an IPO , or the owner(s) are setting up a profitable sell out, or they are just struggling to make payroll now, with the intent to invest in the infrastructure later. I dunno. Regardless, things aren't happening that need to happen real soon, if the line is going to be around in five or ten years.

That's why I think Genuine owners should stock up on spare parts now.

Hey Bustin' - Glad you didn't take my post as antagonistic. I definitely see your points, and you obviously have much more of an inside view than I do without question.

I sure hope that these are more growing pains than signs of a company that might not be around for long...

Thanks for the reply

cortadito wrote:I sure hope that these are more growing pains than signs of a company that might not be around for long......

Man, I am with you. I was looking forward to selling the line, because they have some nice offerings in areas that Honda has neglected badly...... and I get bikes at dealer cost !

We take a look at them every year or so , and I hope they get it together in '08 .

The Zuma might be easier to find parts for, but I haven't seen a mod for the fugly looks yet. The Buddy has a certain mojo that the Zuma doesn't have. It's a shame about parts though....I remember Jeremy mentioning similar issues when he made friends with that deer a while back.

Wow, a three-scoot buy-in? Heck *I* could be a Genuine dealer, if that's all it takes. Then I wouldn't worry about the microfiche, I'd be fine with a binder.

Hi all .... Im new here ...so this probably wont go over well.

I am a Buddy 50 owner. I looked at a few scoots metro,vino, C3 & some TGB stuff ... thought they were all nice scoots (TGB lower then the others). I bought my Buddy at the Yamaha dealer .... The Yamaha dealer quit carrying the Yamaha scoots, except for the maxi scoots like the Morphis, because they thought they were over priced and they said it seemed like Yamaha was more concerned with making a sale ... and Yamaha was more focused on the bigger $ bikes. ....This is what the Yamaha dealer told me.

I bought mine at MSRP price , no set up/shipping fee , derestricted free , and 10% off anything for a year.