Cool helmets!

Discuss protective gear, jackets, shoes and all things you can wear here

Moderator: urbanscootin mods

Cool helmets!

Postby laspalmas7 on Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:08 am

Hey gang - I just ran across these - check 'em out!

http://fulmerhelmets.com

-andrew
2009 Zuma 125
User avatar
laspalmas7
Member
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:11 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Cool helmets!

Postby carolinatrophy on Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:42 am

I wear one of those. Their "half" helmet in black.

I don't know anything about the brand or the safety, but the manufacturing quality is great and the finish is fantastic. It's definitely comfy and at the price, super affordable.
-Paul
2003 Denim Metropolitan ("Potsie")

"Can't this Met go any faster? I can still see where I am."
User avatar
carolinatrophy
Member
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Cool helmets!

Postby srpvoltaire on Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:08 pm

They are a fine manafacture. My wife's first helmet was from them, a 3/4 model. It was basic, functional and cheep. Motorcylist Magizine did a artical on helmets a few years back showing that DOT helmets transmitted a lot less G-forces to the head compared to Snell approved hemlets. I know Fulmer was one of the brands that transmitted less than 200gs, where Shoie and Arie where up around 270.
Shawn
2005 Honda CHF50 Metropolitan
2008 Suzuki DL650 V-Strom
srpvoltaire
Member
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:46 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Cool helmets!

Postby Bustin on Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:55 am

srpvoltaire wrote: Motorcylist Magizine did a artical on helmets a few years back showing that DOT helmets transmitted a lot less G-forces to the head compared to Snell approved hemlets. I know Fulmer was one of the brands that transmitted less than 200gs, where Shoie and Arie where up around 270.


Any helmet that holds a curent Snell rating is also DOT approved, or would be if they bothered to submit it for approval. Many of what I consider to be "toy" helmets are DOT approved only , including the silly little brain buckets that don't even have a face shield , let alone a chin bar , which is probably the most important part of a helmet when it comes to real-world crash scenarios. Snell isn't going to approve a helmet that only protects the top half of your head , and leaves the entire bottom half, including your face, completely exposed to any and all impacts. The DOT does.

I'm no fan of Snell , but at least they don't put their stamp on those silly little skullcaps that people only wear to be "technically legal" and avoid tickets. The DOT does.

On that note , 3/4 or 1/2 shell design is going to show some very glaring weaknesses if you review a significant number of real world motorcycle/scooter accidents , the primary reason being they don't protect your entire head , the way a full-face does. The good , old-fashioned "face plant" still reigns supreme in the realm of crash related headstrikes, and this is why hard core motocross riders, who crash all the time, never wear any kind of open face helmet. They know the deal, plain and simple....and the same rule applies to street riding (and crashing) ... but people still wear toy helmets on the street , at least until they learn a little more about what crashing is all about.

As far as Fulmer vs. Arai and Shoei , I'm extremely skeptical of any study that rates a helmet with a soft , one-stage liner as "safer" than a state of the art, spare no expense top end helmet like Arai or Shoei , with uses a dual density inner liner and has a fiberglass reinforced shell , as opposed to regular polycarbonate plastic shell , which is what Fulmer uses on most, if not all, of their helmets. You don't have to spend $500 or $800 to get a helmet that does a good job of protecting you in a crash , but if you do spend that kind of cash on an Arai or Shoei , it will be a first rate helmets and it will do it's job in a crash. The extra benefits of overall comfort, quality, ventilation , and a hard polycarbonate faceshield will become apparent as soon as you use it.

I have a particularly negative opinion of Fulmer helmets, having wasted good money on a high end one a few years ago and finding it to be a POS in a number of ways , mostly revolving around a soft, easily scratched faceshield and poor overall fit and finish . Oh, and the ventilation sucked too. No comparison whatsoever to my Shoei , and even my HJC CL-15 , at half the price, kicks the crap out of that Fulmer in every way. I wore it for a few months, and threw it away... and it wasn't an inexpensive helmet , it was their "best" full face offering. My shop doesn't sell Fulmer , and quite often a customer will come in with one of their butter-soft faceshields that needs replacement due to scratches (see above) , and when I refer them to a couple of local shops that sell the line , I hear "THEY DON'T STOCK IT EITHER ! " .

I do appreciate one thing about Fulmer..... they don't allow online lowballers to sell their products , although they will set up anyone with a business card up as a "dealer" , as long as they sell out of some sort of building and don't primarily sell via mail-order or online. Unfortunately, these dealers don't often support the helmets very well at all, and don't carry replacement parts. Maybe that's a local phenomenon, I dunno.

I don't really care what helmet a person decides to wear , but when comparisons are made involving a $99 lid supposedly being "better" than a top of the line Shoei or Arai , that doesn't fly with me.
"Cruising is what I dig the most." - Jeff Spicoli
User avatar
Bustin
Member
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:23 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Cool helmets!

Postby srpvoltaire on Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:54 am

Forgive me for not clarifying by saying DOT only approved helmets. Of course anything with a Snell cert is also DOT approved. The problem with the Snell certification is this. People believe that Snell is a superior certification. Because of this, when helmet manufactures make a helmet, their primary concern is to get the Snell cert so that they can charge significantly more for it. They don't care if it’s safer or not. Part of the Snell test requires that a helmet survive a blunt impact with a heavy object twice in the exact same spot. This is an extremely unlikely event to occur in a crash. In order to pass this test, the outer shell of a helmet must be made significantly stiffer. A stiffer shell cannot absorb as much impact as a more flexible shell, which the Snell test would destroy. That means, many more Gs get transmitted to the head. Helmets exist to prevent brain injury. Brain injury happens in a crash when the soft brain get flung against the hard skull and goes splat. Helmets slow down the speed at which the brain hits the skull by absorbing impact. Snell helmets do not absorb as many G forces as one which only has a DOT cert. That means more of those Gs go to the brain, raising the risk of brain injury.

The price of a Shoie or Arai helmet is not high because they have proud more R&D money into making the helmet safer. They cost more because they have added comfort features cheaper helmets don't have, and over the years they have been able to market themselves as makers of better helmets. Part of this marketing effort is getting the Snell cert. What people don't realize is the Snell cert is less safe. Any helmet that can pass the Snell tests will not absorb as much impact as a DOT only helmet. Unless you want additional comfort, convince, or styling features, there is no reason to pay more than $100 for a full face helmet. You buy no additional safety with your extra money.

I always advocate wearing a full face helmet, as a helmet can only protect your head where it covers your head. In regards to "brain buckets" with DOT stickers remember there are a lot of novelty helmets out there wear the manufacture or the owner has placed a DOT sticker on the helmet when that helmet really does not pass DOT specs. A half helmet or 3/4 helmet that really is DOT approved offers just as much impact absorption as a full face helmet, but they only offer it in the smaller area of the head they cover.

Read the article here http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearb ... index.html The whole article is good but the chart near the middle bottom lines it nicely: Fewer Gs = Less chance of brain injury. The Fullmer helmet they tested averaged 157 Gs, the Arai 201 Gs. Which do you want on your head? Sorry my numbers were off in the previous post. I did not review the article before posting.
Shawn
2005 Honda CHF50 Metropolitan
2008 Suzuki DL650 V-Strom
srpvoltaire
Member
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:46 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Cool helmets!

Postby carolinatrophy on Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:08 pm

Bustin wrote:3/4 or 1/2 shell design is going to show some very glaring weaknesses if you review a significant number of real world motorcycle/scooter accidents , the primary reason being they don't protect your entire head , the way a full-face does. The good , old-fashioned "face plant" still reigns supreme in the realm of crash related headstrikes


There is simply no question about it. You are 100% correct.

I wear the half-shell Fulmer for the same reason I wear sneakers and t-shirts when I ride. It's more comfortable. If I crash at 43mph in flip-flops, no shirt and my half helmet, I'm likely to get pretty busted up. I accept that. But I don't ride to crash, so I figure the half helmet at least keeps the top, "important" part of my head a little safer.

My teeth and my jaw? Not so much. LOL
-Paul
2003 Denim Metropolitan ("Potsie")

"Can't this Met go any faster? I can still see where I am."
User avatar
carolinatrophy
Member
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Cool helmets!

Postby Bustin on Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:17 am

srpvoltaire wrote:The whole article is good but the chart near the middle bottom lines it nicely: Fewer Gs = Less chance of brain injury. The Fullmer helmet they tested averaged 157 Gs, the Arai 201 Gs. Which do you want on your head? .


The Arai , hands down. Every time. No question about it.

Just about every professional roadracer would agree with me, and a huge percentage of long time, hard core street riders as well. I've seen Arai helmets that have struck solid objects with heads inside them at high speeds , without a head injury to the rider, and I have seen cheap polycarbonate helmets cracked in half , or abraded clean down to the inner liner , from minor strikes and scrapes that would barely scratch an FRP shell. Magazine writers can play around with G forces all they want , but I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts if any of those guys at MotrocyclistOnline knew they were gonna be involved in a hairy bike wreck involving a head strike or four, and had a choice of helmets, they'd quietly go for the Arai or Shoei and leave the Fulmer or ZR1 sitting on the table , in spite of their article.

Cheap polycarbonate shells and soft , single stage inner liners aren't safer than an FRP shell and a dual density liner, and if a magazine article says otherwise , I'm curious to see who's advertising is featured most in their pages. The Fulmer I owned fogged up in the slightest temperature change, had water running down the inside of the visor in rain , whistled like a flute at highway speeds, and would give you heat stroke on a hot day due due to poor ventilation..... all of which are serious safety flaws , and not involving G forces being transmitted to my head. Being able to see out of a helmet in incliment weather , or riding comfortably on a scorching day , or hearing a potential threat instead of air whistling around an ill-fitting visor....those are very important safety issues as well.

And seriously , before you explain to me how Arai and Shoei became established as industry leaders in the motorcycle business, which I have been in for years , you should learn how to spell them . It wasn't flashy advertising and hype that made those brands famous , it was spare no expense R&D, testing, and engineering, which pushed the envelop of safety and function to the highest lever in the industry. If you want to see hype and glitter , shine the spotlight on brands like Fulmer and Icon ..... go check out Fulmer's website, and look for specifications on their helmet construction . You won't find any technical information about their helmet design , just hype. Then go read up on Arai , on their website. Read the technical section. Tell me which brand wants to talk hot-shot graphics and cool new colors , and which brand wants to talk about construction, design ,engineering , and safety.

Wear whatever cheap helmet you want man , but don't pretend to be an expert on a helmet brand you've never owned , because you read one magazine article that managed to come up with a test that suggested a soft helmet liner was superior to a dual density one.
Last edited by Bustin on Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Cruising is what I dig the most." - Jeff Spicoli
User avatar
Bustin
Member
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:23 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Cool helmets!

Postby carolinatrophy on Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:38 am

Ouch. LOL

I think another good (albeit low-tech) way to judge helmets is to look at what the pros wear. MotoGP riders and WSB riders and such, who spend their entire careers falling off motorcycles and whose very lives and incomes depend on them getting up, dusting themselves off, and getting back on the bike again.

Shoei. Arai. AGV. Suomy. I don't know anyone who rides with a $90 Fulmer. LOL

And Shoei and Arai also feature heavily in the manufacture of automotive racing helmets, and are worn by F1 drivers, WRC drivers, IndyCar and Le Mans endurance racing drivers. Guys to whom money is no object, and guys who can pretty much expect to crash with regularity, purely by the nature of their jobs.

I wear a Fulmer half-helmet on the scoot because is was cheap and I wanted a modicum of protection in the low-speed accidents that I might encounter, NOT because I think it protects me better than a Shoei. I'm with Bustin on this one. If you told me: "You're going to fall off your motorcycle at 85mph, slide across the road and into a guard rail. Go pick a helmet to wear for it." I'd walk right past all the Fulmers and pick out a nice, expensive Shoei.

(Which, in case anyone cares, is exactly what I did. When I ride my sportbike, I wear a full-face Shoei. When I race cars, I wear a full-face Schuberth. Both of those are $600+ helmets, and I invested in them because I want the best possible protection for my entire head in a heavy crash. And I expect to need it. LOL. On the scooter, my priorities are different. I intentionally trade protection for comfort, and try to find a compromise that suits MY personal comfort level when it comes to estimated risk vs. enjoyment and comfort. But for pure protection? "Protection above ALL else?" Oh, it's Shoei, baby. Or Arai. Or AGV. Or Suomy. Fulmer's not even in the same league as far as I'm concerned.)
-Paul
2003 Denim Metropolitan ("Potsie")

"Can't this Met go any faster? I can still see where I am."
User avatar
carolinatrophy
Member
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Cool helmets!

Postby Bustin on Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:49 am

carolinatrophy wrote:Ouch. LOL


I'm not tryin' to bust anybody's balls here, but this is a subject I take seriously and know a fair bit about from firsthand (and close secondhand ) experience. My career gives me certain advantages in the information gathering department, when it comes to various brands of gear, including helmets. I won't hesitate to correct or rebutt and post that suggests a cheap helmet is better protection than a premium lid like Arai, Shoei , AGV , Suomy, etc. , etc.

The only place a cheap helmet performs better is at the cash register, and even then , the overall value is usually less than what you get from investing in a premium brand, in the long run. As I've posted before , you don't need to spend big bucks to get a decent helmet , but ultimately, like everything, you usually end up getting what you pay for.

I apologize if I came of harsh. :D
"Cruising is what I dig the most." - Jeff Spicoli
User avatar
Bustin
Member
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:23 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Cool helmets!

Postby srpvoltaire on Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:04 am

I apologize for mentioning some science that disagrees with your belief system. It was a carless thing to do and I assure you that I did not intend to inflict such emotional distress. The same goes for my wreakless spelyng skills. Mother told me that my inattention to them as a child would catch up with me someday, and that when they do, someone will get hurt.

Please, no one read what I posted above if you find new information upsetting. The above content is only suitable for those who can safely consider that some facts they have been led to believe are true might indeed by false.

I should have made the disclaimer earlier. For every else who thinks that the laws of physics might be a better indication of safety than then number of any particular brand of helmet in the paddock, please consider the above information. If after said consideration you still believe that you are safer wearing a helmet that passes along more impact to your brain but is able to withstand hitting a round object at 180mph when you take you scooter out for a ride, please wear one. That is of course after you hold the fundraiser needed to pay for it.

Also, some please tell the people shown on this site http://www.fulmerhelmets.com/racing.html that their lives are in danger. I would, but I need to go study my spelling words.
Shawn
2005 Honda CHF50 Metropolitan
2008 Suzuki DL650 V-Strom
srpvoltaire
Member
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:46 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Cool helmets!

Postby carolinatrophy on Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:34 am

Well, some nerves were clearly touched here, and I kinda expected that after reading Bustin's post, but I don't think anyone was intentionally trying to sound mean. I know I certainly wasn't.

And I'm sure that Fulmer is capable of making helmets that are just fine. I think the point is that thinking a $90 Fulmer is going to protect your head in a serious accident better than a $500 Shoei is probably wishful thinking, despite what one article says about one specific test.

In my opinion, Shoei is to helmets what Michelin is to tires. Their experience, their reach, and their resources are impressive, and they spend an enormous amount of money on the development of their products. The same goes for Arai and others. And if Shoei is like Michelin, then Fulmer is like... Uniroyal or something. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with them, and maybe they offer good value, and maybe a Uniroyal tire outperforms a Michelin tire in one specific area of one specific magazine test. But even if they do, it would be wrong to point to that one test in one article and proclaim broadly that Uniroyal makes better tires than Michelin.
-Paul
2003 Denim Metropolitan ("Potsie")

"Can't this Met go any faster? I can still see where I am."
User avatar
carolinatrophy
Member
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Cool helmets!

Postby Bustin on Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:28 pm

One of the things being missed here is the fact that a cheap helmet can actually help cause an accident, especially on a scooter, with it's tiny tires. If you ride in wet weather , like I do over a hundred days a year, you will quickly find out that cheap helmets tend to offer very poor visibility , mostly due to fogging of the visor and a poor seal that allows water to enter the helmet and run down the inside of the visor. So here you are , scooting along on 10" tires at 40mph , in the dark, with a fogged up visor. That foot deep , foot wide pothole goes unseen, due to the fog layer inside your helmet, and next thing you know , you are flying over the bars, preparing to test one of the theories regarding G forces and head strikes, and finding out if a $70 helmet can protect you when your head slams into the street or the curb or an oncoming vehicle (which may be doing 70mph). So much for the "I ride a little scooter so I will only have a low speed impact " theory, huh ?

An open face design is even worse in the rain , same issues as above , and a hell of a lot more discomfort to boot.

I'll stick with my Shoei and HJC , because they work for me when measured by a number of different criteria, day in and day out . Anybody who has read my posts over the years knows that I'm not a helmet snob , in fact I often recommend a helmet that costs $129.99 to new riders. However, I won't tell them it's better than an Arai or Shoei , or suggest that those premium brands are somehow unsafe. That would be stupid. Other people can feel free to run out and buy whatever helmet the latest "big magazine article" comes along and suggests, while it also attempts to debunk everything that years of helmet research, testing, and development have proved in real life situations, over and over , on both the street and on the track. No skin offa me .......I figure time will teach someone, if they insist on learning everything firsthand, and manage to live through the process.

P.S. , two years ago it was ZR1 helmets that everybody was all a-buzz about , due to some big magazine article that declared them so much safer than all those "rip-off" high end brands. Next year, it will be some other cheap brand that has everybody all excited , because they can justify their decision to pinch pennies on a helmet. The people that know will still insist on a premium helmet, and spend the money on them . Some things never change.
"Cruising is what I dig the most." - Jeff Spicoli
User avatar
Bustin
Member
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:23 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Cool helmets!

Postby FLATOUT50 on Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:34 am

Let's not forget two things:

1) Big magazines love advertising money, it's how they pay the rent and bonuses.

2) The neck is extremely vulnerable. The head is 15-20 lbs, sitting on top of a column of fragile discs. Why most of us folks over 40 have neck problems just from life's normal wear and tear. If you survive a crash with a $130 or $400 helmet that keeps your head from splitting open, you can still be paralyzed by a broken neck. Or if your not so lucky, die from a broken neck with your head intact. Let's be safe and hope thing #2 of this post never happens to us and all who ride.

Be safe.
2009 Honda Metropolitan (Sold)
2007 Yamaha V-Star 1100 Silverado Classic
FLATOUT50
Member
 
Posts: 1073
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:14 pm
Location: Newington, CT


Return to Apparel Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests